080408 Regular Council Meeting MinutesMINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council"
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Tuesday Apol 8, 2= 07:00 PM
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Chair. SWph Molnw
CALL TO ORDER
CLOSED MEETING SESSION
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DISCLOSURE OF PECUNIARY INTEREST OR THE GENERAL NATURE THEREOF
Councillor Beres declared a pecuniary interest.
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MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council"
Councillor Rosehart declared a pecuniary interest.
MINUTES & BUSINESS ARISING OUT OF THE MINUTES
[March 18, 2008
Minutes dated March 18, 2008, as attached, are provided as information only at this time.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
No. 1
Moved by Deputy Mayor Renaud
Seconded by Councillor Lamb AND RESOLVED THAT the Agenda as prepared for the Special Council
Meeting of April 8, 2008 be adopted.
"Carried"
PRESENTATIONS
> (44h�
PUBLIC MEETINGS
1. Application for Zone Change ZON 7-330 (Tillsonburg Shopping Centres Limited) (Second Public
Meeting for the subject Application) D
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Richards.pdf Aird & Berlis - Loblaws.pdf Canadian Tire.pdf Cowden pdf Fogler Rubinoff - Loblaws.pdf Kelman.pdf MIT Group.pdf
Morgan.pdf EIGe Harding.pdf Hasrhger.pdf
Ms. Marg Evans, County of Oxford Planning, commented that there have been no additions or changes to
Report 2008-69, as attached.
Opportunity was given for public comment.
Mr. Jeff Wies, resident for 15 years, and business owner in Tillsonburg, appeared before Council, in
opposition to the subject application. Mr. Wies noted his concerns for existing businesses. He
commented that there are not many communities left where one can walk from store to store to shop. He
added that he is not opposed to new development, but it must be the right development. Mr. Jeff Wies
commented that it's not hard to see what impact such a development would have on the downtown. Mr.
Wies filed the attached comments for the official record...
MAMW (49*)
Wies.pdf
Mr. Gordon Coggins appeared before Council, in opposition to the subject application. Mr. Coggins noted
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MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council"
that he is a relatively newcomer to Tillsonburg, but commented that Tillsonburg is an 'extraordinary' town
because of its many amenities, for example, the Community Centre with a wide range of activities, Water
Park, Town Centre, Paricipark, trails, soccer fields, careful regulations regarding new construction,
Hospital, Library, Otter Valley Play House, Lake Lisgar fountain, annual model boat regatta, etc. He
added that, all of these things say Tillsonburg is 'extraordinary'... has shown leadership. Mr Coggins
continued, expressing his concerns about Walmart's business. Mr. Coggins files the attached comments
for the official record...
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Coggins.pdf
Ms. Jane Haslinger appeared before Council, in opposition to the subject application. She noted that she
does not feel this project is needed in terms of retain space. Ms. Haslinger filed the attached comments
for the official record...
Haslinger.pdf
Mr. Gary Nelles appeared before Council, in opposition to the subject application. Mr. Nelles encouraged
everyone to really think about what is being proposed, before voting.
Mr. Gordon Voss appeared before Council in opposition to other subject application. Mr. Voss moved to
Tillsonburg approximately three years ago, and referred to his experiences in New Market, the
development there, and the deterioration of the downtown. Mr. Voss referred to the Letter to the Editor
written by his wife, to which he agrees with her comments.
Ms. Irene Hurley appeared before Council in opposition to the subject application. Ms. Hurley noted that
she was speaking on behalf of our family, and also noted they are business people in Tillsonburg. She
noted that they have great concerns regarding the subject application for rezoning and subsequent Official
Plan changes. She asked Council not to approve this application, noting that her family would, however,
support expansion of Walmart in its present location or relocation as suggest in the Official Plan to a
suitable site within the core area, as others have done, in keeping with the Oficial Plan.
Mr. Cam McKnight appeared before Council in opposition to the subject application. Mr. McKnight
presented his comments on some of the key issues, being developer credibility, Municipal integrity,
downtown impact, community planning, and quality of life. Mr. McKnight filed the attached comments for
the official record...
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McKnight.pdf
Ms. Dorothy Lipsit appeared before Council in opposition to the subject application. She asked Council to
make this decision with wisdom, love for our community, and most importantly, vision for our community.
Ms. Marg Keiser appeared before Council in opposition to the subject application, commenting that
Tillsonburg has a lot of history and character. She commented that Walmart can expand in it's current
location. Ms. Keiser hopes Council will make a smart choice.
Mayor Molnar noted that Don Burton was not present.
Mayor Molnar noted that Ralph Vine was not present.
Mr. Scot Bolton appeared before Council in opposition to the subject application. Mr. Bolton noted that he
is a husband, father, business owner, property owner, volunteer and concerned citizen. Mr. Bolton
commented on three choices...Walmart could expand in its current location; expand at the North end in
some format; or build a reasonable size development in the downtown. Mr. Bolton added that he thinks
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MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council"
time and money should be spent o making the third choice, downtown development, a reality.
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Mr. Rick Young appeared before Council in opposition to the subject application. Mr. Young expressed
his concerns if Walmart is permitted to build what is being proposed. He commented that the north end
would become the prime retail area, and retailers will be forced to migrate. He noted his disappointment
in the County's approval of the application. Mr. Young filed the attached comments...
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Young.pdf
Mr. Shane Curtis appeared before Council in opposition to the subject application. Mr. Curtis appeared as
a resident, business owner and real estate investor in Tillsonburg, and noted that he is fully supportive of
the Chamber's position. Mr. Curtis filed the attached comments...
ad
Curtis.pdf
Mayor Molnar called a short break. The meeting reconvened at 8:55 p.m.
Mayor Molnar invited follow-up questions.
Mrs. Irene Hurley asked County representatives how the depth and emphasis of the message
communicated to Tillsonburg Council can be directed to Oxford County. Ms. Evans detailed the process,
being...there are 2 applications before Town Council, and one of those is before Oxford. The Zone
Change application is being considered in Tillsonburg; and the Official Plan application is being
considered at the County level. She noted that clearly the report presented at the last public meeting
recommends a deferral of a decision. A number of the public have been head, and a number of public
submissions have been received. All of the written records have been submitted to the Town and County
will be available for the County to consider as well. At the time when Town Council is prepared to make a
decision on the applications, that recommendation will be provided to County Council, and will be part of
the deliberation at County Council.
Mrs. Hurley asked if there would be opportunity for public comment at County Council. Ms. Evans replied
that there will be another statutory meeting held at the County level, and there will be opportunity for
public comment.
Mr. Iry Horton, who spoke at the first public meeting in March, emphasized that the meeting held at the
County level will be similar to this meeting ... a public meeting and everyone is invited to attend. Anyone
can attend the County Council meeting and make their opinions known.
Councillor Lewis commented regarding provincial legislation and how there is now more weight put on the
wishes of local governance.
Ms. Kathy Donaldson asked a question regarding Urban Metrics. She asked who paid for that report, and
what other major projects they had been involved with other than for Smart Centres.
Ms. Evans replied that Urban Metrics was commissioned by the County of Oxford and paid for by the
County.
It was noted that Urban Metrics is also doing a retail policies study for Windsor, has finished one for the
City of London, and is also working on a peer review for a similar application in London, and a policy study
for Peterborough.
In response to a question regarding applications before Council, and the planning process, both Mayor
Molnar and Ms. Evans responded.
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MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council"
With respect to anticipated timelines, Ms. Evans noted that MTO comments were still outstanding, and
those are required before reporting back to Council. She added that County Planning is hoping to come
back to Town Council with a secondary report the end of April/first of May, depending on timing of MTO
comments.
Mr. David noted his concerns will not being well represented. He wondered if Council is considering any
other ways of communicating to other citizens, i.e. a survey.
Mayor Molnar announced a final call for questions for the County Planner, and thanked everyone for their
participation and contribution.
Mr. Josh Kaufman, representing Tillsonburg Shopping Centres, was called upon. Mr. Kaufman
commented that the information from the March 18th meeting and this meeting, will be reviewed, and they
will draft a response to some of the questions raised and look forward to making that submission for
Council's consideration. They will work with all of the information over the next couple weeks, noting they
also need agency comments.
Councillor Lewis asked Mr. Kaufman if Smart Centres has actually purchased the property, or if the
purchase is conditional upon this particular application going forward. He asked if there has been a
commitment made.
Mr. Kaufman responded by saying he is not at liberty of disclosing the details of that arrangement,
however stating there is a contractual arrangement wit the member of that property.
Councillor Lewis asked Mr. Kaufman, on the assumption that this process was to go through, based on
14ow� information presented and information coming forward, what is the sustainable ongoing commercial retail
investment that he or Walmart, or whoever, would be willing to make in the downtown core to back up the
assertions made.
Mr. Kaufman responded by saying he is not able to provide any guarantee in terms of impact, and is just
going forward based on the reports in front of us. He commented that, if they didn't feel as strongly about
the report, as they do, they would not have made this submission to Council.
Mr. Lewis commented that what this community is interested in, and what he hears from citizens, is that
there is risk involved. Mr. Lewis' question was how would Smart Centres assist this community, what
commitments would they make, what contributions would they make to mitigate that risk.
Mr. Kaufman responded by saying he thinks there are opportunities to contribute as a member of the
community. He added, having experience and knowledge of retailing, there is opportunity for them
through agencies to help.
Councillor Stephenson questioned the comment made that there might be 600 new jobs created with this
development. Mr. Stephenson asked if, from the 600 jobs, is someone going to lose somewhere else?
Response was made that there are 110 people working in the existing Walmart. Statistics say that would
triple. They believe there will be an increased business, and to operate a significant grocery would
require more people. There would be about 30 new.
Councillor Stephenson commented regarding new growth, noted that the net growth in five years was 30
people. He added that people do not eat or wear more, so unless the number of people coming into the
community increases, he can't see increased jobs. He asked where these people will come from.
Mr. Kaufman responded that there is always a migration, and people will come from surrounding
communities.
Councillor Stephenson asked if all Smart Centres include a Walmart.
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MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council"
Mr. Kaufman responded, no. He commented that the site of the requested Walmart is based on the
market.
Deputy Mayor Renaud asked when County Public Works was first made aware of this application.
Ms. Evans responded that she didn't have a date, but all parties would have been circulated shortly after
the application was received.
Deputy Mayor Renaud commented that this Council is waiting for critical information from places out of
our control, noting that it is critical that MTO and County Public Works comment. The Deputy Mayor
asked for an estimated time when these two pieces of information will be made available. He noted that
this application has been in the works for several months, and we are now at a point of critical junction.
Ms. Evans advised that County Public Works has responded, and MTO is beyond the County's control.
Contact h as been made with Town staff to arrange a meeting.
Mayor Molnar asked if there was something the Town could do to facilitate or expedite a response from
MTO.
Ms. Evans responded that contact has been made from MTO within the last few days, and she believes
measures have been taken to initiate a meting. Mr. Michiels will be attending that meeting.
Councillor Lamb questioned how many responses were outstanding.
Ms. Evans replied that only outstanding comments are from MTO.
Councillor Lamb asked how many agencies had been contacted.
Ms. Evans responded, close to 20.
Mayor Molnar has if there has been review, or will be review, of the overall traffic pattern and impact.
Ms. Evans responded that the traffic impact study has addressed that.
Mayor Molnar asked, from a planning point of view, when an application is approved, how is the actual
use of the approved floor space controlled, after retail use is operating?
Ms. Evans responded that the enforceable document is the Zoning By -Law.
Mayor Molnar noted that we will wait and make sure we remain transparent and have all the information.
Understanding that, Mayor Molnar asked Mr. Kaufman, in general, as he drives into this community from
Vaughn, why has Tillsonburg been chosen, and why now?
Mr. Kaufman responded by saying, when they look at a development application, they look at what makes
good market sense. Everything is based on business sense, due diligence. He added that they stand
behind all the comments heard tonight, and believe Tillsonburg is a great place.
Mayor Molnar asked Mr. Kaufman if there are potential tenants for the auxiliary space and service space?
Mr. Kaufman responded, yes there are potential tenants.
The following resolutions were passed.
No. 2
Moved by Deputy Mayor Renaud
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MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council'
Seconded by Councillor Lamb AND RESOLVED THAT documentation received from members of the
public that have spoke at the public meeting April 8, 2007 be received as information and be added to the
public record for application ZON 7-330.
"Carried"
No. 3
Moved by Deputy Mayor Renaud
Seconded by Councillor Lamb AND RESOLVED THAT Whereas Council hereby acknowledges that it has
held the Public Meeting portion for the application submitted by Tillsonburg Centres Limited (File Nos. OP
11-148 and ZON 7-330) and that it has received correspondence and public input concerning this
application;
THAT Council hereby defers the decision until Council has received correspondence from the Ministry of
Transportation Ontario that concerns regarding the development and off-site improvements have been
addressed by the Development Site Plan and Traffic Impact Study; as well as confirmation from the
County Department of Public Works that adequate water and wastewater services will be available for the
development within their development timeframe;
THAT Council also hereby acknowledges that in no way does this deferral indicate a decision of this
planning matter;
AND FURTHER THAT Council hereby acknowledges that adjournment of this meeting constitutes the end
of the public portion of the Public Hearing for Application ZON 7-330.
"Carried"
DELEGATIONS
QUARTERLY REPORTS
CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER
OPERATIONS
COMMUNITY SERVICES
CORPORATE SERVICES
FINANCE
INFORMATION ITEMS
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MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council"
NOTICE OF MOTION
RESOLUTIONS
BY-LAWS
ITEMS OF PUBLIC INTEREST
CLOSED MEETING SESSION CONTINUED
ADJOURNMENT
No. 4
Moved by Deputy Mayor Renaud
Seconded by Councillor Lewis THAT the Special Council Meeting of April 8, 2008 adjourn.
"Carried"
Meeting adjourned.
Approval Received: (1 of 1)
Lana Lund/Tillsonburg (Monday June 23, 2008 02:19
PM)
Town of Tillsonburg
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