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080318 Regular Council Meeting Minutes/0011 MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council" Review Access: • Public Q Private MINUTES Town of Tillsonburg Meeting for the Committee "Open Council" on Tuesday March 18, 2008 07:00 PM Lions Auditorium, Tillsonburg Community Centre 45 Hardy Avenue, Tillsonburg Chair: Stephen Molnar Oram oftt a Dar. Call to Order Closed Meeting Session Disclosure of Pec unary Interest or the General Nature Thereof Minutes & -Bu iness Arising out of the Minutes Adoption of Agenda Preseniations Public Meetings Delegations Qualm Reports Chief Adminishative -Officer Operations Communes Services corpora Bevinoes Finance inibmwtion Items Notice, of lmotitM Resolutions. Bji-La111f S Items of Public -Interest Closed Meeting Session aN-* red Adjournment CALL TO ORDER The meeting was called to order at 7:11 p.m. CLOSED MEETING SESSION Page 1 MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council" n DISCLOSURE OF PECUNIARY INTEREST OR THE GENERAL NATURE THEREOF Councillor Beres declared a pecuniary interest, on the advice of his solicitor. Councillor Rosehart declared a pecuniary interest, on the advice of her solicitor. MINUTES & BUSINESS ARISING OUT OF THE MINUTES ADOPTION OF AGENDA No. 1 Moved by Deputy Mayor Renaud Seconded by Councillor Lamb AND RESOLVED THAT the Agenda as prepared for the Council Meeting of March 18, 2008 be adopted. "Carried" PRESENTATIONS PUBLIC MEETINGS 1. Application for Zone Change ZON 7-330 fflillsonbuEg Shopping Centres Limited M --- Presented Presented By: Mr. Harry Shnider, Planner, County of Oxford Staff Report C 2008 -13 Correspondence Regarding Smart Centres AppGcation.pdf chu16200.pdf Mr. Harry Shnider, Planner, County of Oxford, reviewed the subject application and County of Oxford Report, as attached. Mr. Shnider highlighted the various comments contained therein. Ms. Marg Evans and Mr. Paul Michaels, from the Oxford County Planning Department, were also present. Mr. Shnider noted that there will be a second Public Meeting, in front of County Council, once it's determined what the Town of Tillsonburg's position is on the application. A date has not yet been set. Mr. Shnider continued with his overview. He noted that he did include in his staff report a summary table of all four market consultants and the differences on some of the questions that were posed as part of the research. Mr. Shnider reviewed the recommendation, as detailed in the attached report. Opportunity was given for Council to ask questions of Mr. Shnider. In response to a question from Councillor Stephenson, Mr. Shnider explained that the Official Plan speaks (� to a hierarchy of uses within the community, and the central area of Tillsonburg is considered to be the - center of retail, office and administrative activities. It also states that within service commercial areas, uses would be permitted that rely on the general public. The Official Plan contemplates a 50,000 sq.ft. Page 2 /Oft'1 MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council" limit, but does set out a process in which it has to be examined. Mr. Shnider explained that we rely on the experts we retain to provide us with commentary. Usually in a market study, we examine what the sales decline would be and how long the impact would last, looking at categories, not individual businesses. Mayor Molnar commented on the response from Ms. Evans regarding growth and impact of growth in the real world, and asked for clarification that those figures are real market dollars. Mayor Molnar also asked if the Town and the corporate boundaries are included in the trade area of the regional commercial node north of the 401, in the City of Woodstock. Ms. Evans responded, no. If response to a question from Councillor Lewis, Ms. Evans commented that, using the example of Woodstock and the development of the retail node in Woodstock, similar studies were created at that time. She went on to say that Woodstock has not seen significant effect in the downtown. Similar market studies shave been undertaken f that and those applications are presently before the OMB. Mayor Molnar proceeded to Phase 2 of the Presentations. Mayor Molnar introduced Glen Shields, GSP Group; Kevin Grove, Director of Corporate Affairs - Walmart; and James Tate, Tate Economic Research. Mr. Josh Kaufman and Mr. James Tate, representing Smart Centres presented the attached powerpoint presentation... Powerpoint - Smart Centres.tif Opportunity was given for questions from Council. Councillor Lamb asked Mr. Tate a question with respect to the assumptions, made in the retail market analysis. He asked if assurances could be given that there would be no street closures and the downtown strength would not chance. Mr. Tate responded that he cannot promise that, but sited 20 years of experience in the business. Councillor Lewis Mr. Kaufman if Smart Centres and Walmart are joined. Mr. Tate responded that they are not. Councillor Lewis as if Smart Centres was formerly First Pro, and the initial owner of the Norfolk Mall, since sold to the current owner. Mr. Tate confirmed that is correct. Councillor Lewis further asked why Walmart would not want to expand on the current site, relative to there being space and area to expand. Mr. Shields responded by saying Walmart and Smart Centres are separate, and sites are considered that are viable. Sites are assessed on their merit. Deputy Mayor Renaud asked if Walmart or Smart Centres formerly looked into land development in the C1 Zone. The response was, no. A question was asked regarding analysis of the decline in the tobacco industry. Mr. Tate responded that retail market analysts rely on other parties, i.e. the County. He added that, he would suggest that the impact in terms of population growth, which was is the primary driver, has been recognized. Deputy Mayor Renaud asked how it makes sense to build a development of this size, when we do not 1 have a public transit system and cannot afford to have one. Mr. Kaufman responded that, when looking at these developments, accessibility is important. He added that, recognizing there is not a transit system is a community discussion. Page 3 MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council" Councillor Stephenson asked if a 100,000 sq.ft. expansion at the current location would stop the leakage of money from this town. He added that he doesn't understand the grocery component of Walmart, and why its so significant. Mr. Shield responded by saying customers are changing and customers want to shop for more things regionally. With respect to a 100,000 sq.ft. expansion, Mr. Shield commented that it would not be a sufficient expansion. At 9:12 p.m., Mayor Molnar called a 5 minute recess. DELEGATIONS Following the recess, the floor was opened up to delegations registered to speak. Mayor Molnar asked that County questions be directed through Mr. Harry Shnider, and Applicant questions be directed through Mr. Josh Kaufman. Mr. Rick Miggens, Chair of the Tillsonburg B.I.A., appeared as a delegation - opposing the application. Mr. Miggens noted that he was representing the B.I.A.'s membership, and the B.I.A. is not in favour of the proposed development. Mr. Miggens read a statement from the B.I.A.'s Annual Meeting, of March 12, 2008, as attached to the Agenda (as part of Report C-2008-13), and expanded on the comments contained in the attached, also explaining the process taken to obtain the comments from their membership. (40011N Mr. Michael Bossy, President of the Tillsonburg District Chamber of Commerce, appeared as a delegation - opposing the application. Mr. Bossy noted that he was representing businesses in Tillsonburg and the area, and that the Chamber of Commerce is not in favour of the application. Mr. Bossy presented the Chamber's comments, as attached to the Agenda, also explaining the process the Chamber took to develop a position as it relates to the proposed development. Mr. Iry Horton, 22 Maple Lane, appeared as a delegation - opposing the application. Mr. Horton noted his years as a member of Town Council, in the capacity of Councillor, Deputy Mayor, and most recently Mayor, until his retirement in 2003. Mr. Horton referred to his personal knowledge, as he commented on the proposed development. Mr. Horton's comments are attached to the Agenda (as part of Report C-2008-13). Mr. Horton filed the attached comments as well for the official record... Iry Hortomdoc Mr. John Armstrong, appeared as a delegation - opposing the application. In explaining the basis for his opposition, Mr. Armstrong stated that his premise is, as recognized in the Official Plan, that the downtown core be dynamic, vibrant, alive and healthy. He commented that a development of 250,000 sq.ft., in his view, would overwhelm the downtown and kill it. Mr. Armstrong added that he does not want to see that, and is sure the citizens of this community do not want to see that. He continued by saying, we have a self-interest in the health of our downtown community and that's an important consideration. He added that, at this point, he would strongly urge members of Council to take a very strong stand and refuse this particular application, as this is not the proper proposal at the proper time. Mr. Pat Devine, solicitor for First Capital Tillsonburg, owners of the Tillsonburg Town Centre, appeared as a delegation - opposing the application. Mr. Devine referred to his submitted comments, attached to the Agenda, and urged the Town and the County to abide by the same good planning principles enunciated in the Official Plan and to reject in its entirety the current plan by Smart Centres to undermine the planned function of the downtown of Tillsonburg. Page 4 MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council" Mr. Michael Bowden, representing Zellers, appeared as a delegation - opposing the application. Mr. Bowden noted that he supports what Mr. Devine said. He added that Zellers is one of the anchor tenants in the Town Centre Mall, owned by First Capital. He commented that he finds it shocking that Mr. Tate's report does not consider the lost tobacco industry, and that the retail sector is in a transition stage. He added that Zellers, as well as others, is at a very vulnerable time. Mr. Bowden commented that its clear that the market studies indicate there is going to be a severe impact on Zellers as well as others. Mr. Bowden added that the development could effects Zellers' ability to stay in the downtown as an anchor in the Town Centre Mall. Mr. Scot Morgan commented, stating that so far the process is not being set up to conduct a commercial policy review. Councillor Lewis asked if any post studies have been done. Mr. Morgan explained how he operates, and how he conducted a commercial policy review, and then pointed out restrictions that have come up, i.e. minimum store size. Mr. Morgan commented that the impacts are so great, that he has never seen anything like this in his years of experience. He added that things should be explored through a commercial policy review, noting that there is already a high level of vacancy in the downtown, and another 15,000 sq.ft. of vacancy in the Town Centre Mall, noting that 12.3% is double what is reasonable for a high level of vacancy in the downtown. Mr. Morgan urged caution, and stated that his best advice is to strengthen what remains, as we've lost something to other municipalities. Mr. Morgan referred to his submission, attached to the Agenda. Mr. John Moylan appeared as a delegation - opposing the application. Mr. Morgan commented that he does not have all the development statistics that others have, but he has been a citizen of Tillsonburg for 44 years, has served on Council and been involved with many committees in Tillsonburg. He commented that he has learned Tillsonburg is a progressive community, and that a strong central core makes for a strong community. He noted that he is not opposed to Walmart, but is opposed to Walmart coming into a successful community and asking for amendments to planning, when they already have allocation on the outskirts of Tillsonburg, and have room for expansion. He also commented on the sewer and water services installed. Mr. Moylan stated that he cannot support the relocation of Walmart on this major piece of service highway commercial property, as it is a prime piece of property. Mr. Moylan urged Council to oppose the application. Mr. Lome Phillips appeared as a delegation, as a concerned citizen and a newcomer to Tillsonburg - opposing the application. Mr. Phillips asked Council to say no to the application. The attached comments were filed by Mr. Phillips... Phi<rps.pdf Ms. Lisa Gilvesy appeared as a delegation - opposing the application. Ms. Gilvesy referred to her submitted comments, attached to the Agenda. Ms. Gilvesy noted that she urges Council to recognize the facts, commenting that she believes this proposed development will severely impair their investment, and that it should be denied. Mr. Bill Cuddy appeared as a delegation, urging Council to vote with their hearts and heads, and to do the right thing. He referred to his submitted correspondence, attached to the Agenda. No. 2 Moved by Deputy Mayor Renaud Seconded by Councillor Lamb AND RESOLVED THAT, in accordance with the Town of Tillsonburg Procedural By -Law 2978, the curfew of 10:30 p.m. be extended for the Council Meeting of March 18, 2008, until 11:00 p.m. Page 5 MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council" "Carried" Ms. Marilyn Frazer appeared as a delegation - opposing the application. Ms. Frazer asked Council to oppose the rezoning request. She commented that most of the residents in Hickory Hills came to Tillsonburg because of the amenities in Tillsonburg, and the downtown core. She added that the residents like being able to walk to the downtown to shop, and many of the residents of Hickory Hills donot drive. She commented Hickory Hills residents have the advantage of life experience, and that many of them feel the proposed development would see the demise of the downtown, forcing stores to close, as they have seen this happen in other towns. She added that Hickory Hills would no longer be a prime location for seniors to live, and property values may decrease significantly. She is also concerned traffic would increase significantly. She commented that they do not object to Walmart expanding in the present location, but are opposed to building at the north end of town. It was noted that her comments are attached to the Agenda. Mr. Darwin Davies appeared as a delegation - supporting the application. He noted that the comments aimed at Walmart and the expansion have been disappointing to him. He would like to see this Council approve the application and for Walmart to go ahead with the development. He noted that he and others had carried out their own poll, and referred to the results they found. Mr. Davies asked Council to make sure they are considering the average working people, commenting that there is a silent majority that isn't being represented. Mr. Davies' comments are attached to the Agenda. Mr. Jeff Schultz, franchise owner of Sobey's, appeared as a delegation - opposing the application. Mr. Shultz spoke as a local businessman of the threat to the businesses of Tillsonburg. He commented that there has been lack of funding support from Walmart, and feels if you do business in this Town you must put back into the community. With respect to the proposed development, he asked if there was ever a /90� time when Walmart came to the community to discuss what is best for the Town. Mr. Schultz commented that there would be two or three retail jobs lost for every one that Walmart creates, and also that the proposed Walmartbuilding is too large. He added that business sectors of this Town are long established. He would like to see more retail traffic in the north, but does not support the proposed development. Mayor Molnar asked Mr. Schultz to leave his comments for the public record. Ms. Kathy Donaldson appeared as a delegation - opposing the application. She asked Council to look at the number of people of various ages who have made lifetime investments in Tillsonburg, and added that our citizens are supportive of each other and give back, and part of the reason for this is that we have a strong core. She commented that we need to support our merchants, and by doing that we will not only retain the good essence of the Town, but will also continue to grow. Ms. Donaldson filed the following comments... Dora ldson.Rdf Mr. Colin Campbell appeared as a delegation - opposing the application. He noted that he and his wife were both raised in Tillsonburg and have chose to return here. He commented that he is proud to say he is from Tillsonburg. He commented that there had been a lot of excellent things said at this meeting, and then pointed out that the City of London's core is just now coming back - after 30 years. Mr. Campbell said the right decision should be made for Tillsonburg. Mr. John Gilvesy, President of Permterra Development Corporation, appeared as a delegation - opposing the application. Mr. Gilvesy noted his interest in Woodhaven Subdivision, and other real estate interests. He commented that our entire retail sector may be devastated, and we should be concerned. Growth is important, but as a developer, commented that he trusts that the spirit of the Official Plan will be respected. He requested that the Smart Centre application be denied, to allow development of the core (4011) area to continue. Mr. Gilvesy's comments are attached to the Agenda. Page 6 MINUTES: Meeting for the Committee "Open Council" Presentations concluded for the meeting, and Mayor Molnar recognized the balance of requests to speak, confirming opportunity to speak would be given at the next Public Meeting. The following resolutions were passed. Resolutions No. 3 Moved by Deputy Mayor Renaud Seconded by Councillor Lewis AND RESOLVED THAT Report C2008-013 and the attachments be received as part of the public record for the Public Hearing of Official Plan application OP11-148 and Zone Change Application ZON.7-330. "Carried" No. 4 Moved by Deputy Mayor Renaud Seconded by Councillor Lamb AND RESOLVED THAT the Public Meeting regarding File Nos. OP 11-148 and ZON 7-330 be recessed until an appropriate date when the remainder of the public comments can be heard, all parties that have registered an interest will be notified of the future date and public notice will be advertised in the local newspaper. "Carded" CLOSED MEETING SESSION CONTINUED ADJOURNMENT No. 5 Moved by Deputy Mayor Renaud Seconded by Councillor Lamb AND RESOLVED THAT the Special Council Meeting of March 18, 2008 be adjourned. "Carried" Meeting adjourned at 11:00 p.m. Approval Received: (1 of 1) Lana Lund/Tillsonburg (Monday June 23, 2008 01:51 PM) 62 Town of Tillsonburg Page 7